Why is querying so freaking depressing, are agents okay with small presses, what perspective should a memoir proposal be in, and more subscriber questions...plus a discount code just for subscribers!
Thanks for this whole series of answers! As always I learn something new and also feel seen...great combo :D
For each rejection I get (and there are lots), I let myself feel sad or disheartened for a day or so and then I try to let it go and move on. I sometimes look for a "Yes" somewhere else (for me it was a professional journal article getting published) while I still submit and query. I go into a bit more detail on rejection in my recent Substack post.
I could cry reading Cort's question, and I haven't even started querying. I've written a manuscript, which I've decided probably isn't ready (if it ever will be) and am applying for workshops etc. I get stressed thinking that I might never get published--the odds are overwhelmingly that I'll never be.
It's a depressing feeling, for sure. But whenever it depresses me to the point where I think about quitting, I think about the amazing writers in my life who aren't published, and I ask myself: Would you tell them to stop writing? No f***ing way. One of my best friends has written an incredible short horror story that hasn't been published (...yet, and it's y'all's loss if it isn't). My grandmother, a '70s journalist who covered civil-rights protests in her rural Southern community (while also raising 10 kids!), has been writing short stories based on her memories of growing up in the '30s and '40s, which only her local writers' group and her family have seen (for now, and it's y'all's loss otherwise). Do I think my grandmother or my friend somehow don't deserve to write, or are lesser writers, because their fiction hasn't been published? No! If anything, I'm sorry for anyone reading this comment who hasn't gotten to read their writing.
If publishing is as insane and depressing as everyone says it is, I'm going to venture out on a limb and guess that you also know people in your life you care about, who write, and who haven't been published. I'd give yourself the same grace that you give the people you love. Good luck out there.
Gosh I have so much to say. First, regarding Cort's question: I was an agent for three years, and when I signed a client it was because their query was great, the book idea was interesting to me, I felt is was commercially viable, and the writing was good. The thing to remember is that agents receive more queries than humanly possible to get through. It takes a long time to work through an overflowing inbox, and that has nothing to do with you as a writer. Your mindset shouldn't default to a place of depression + anxiety over this, but I know depression often tells us a story about oursleves that isn't true (I have suffered from depression my whole life). A suggestion: Write a list of facts about yourself (in group therapy we'd call this "check the facts."). I bet you've accomplished quite a bit that you're not giving yourself credit for. Courtney is 100% correct about having a main stream of income that isn't book-related. Almost every author I've worked with over the past three decades had a day job. Advances are erratic, so having some financial security will alleviate some anxiety.
The small press question: My last in-house position was at an indie publisher, and I do a lot of consulting with other indie publishers now that I have my own PR/Marketing firm. Your agent wants to sell your book, and sometimes that means doing so with a small press. You should have a frank discussion with your agent if the advance is really low--because it probably will be. The agent might be open to a lower commission. Another option is to enter into a profit share deal with an indie publisher. That means forgoing an advance for a higher royalty rate and splitting the book's profits with the publisher. The great thing about indie publishers is that they have more freedom because they aren't tethered to a corporate parent, so they can wheel and deal differently. Sometimes starting out with an indie publisher is a stepping stone to the big five, and there is nothing wrong with that.
My experience speaks to both the memoir proposal question and the querying process. I first queried agents with a full ms of my memoir, only to receive rejections or silence from 50 agents. (Note: Do not query 50 agents at a time. Everyone told me not to do this. But I did it anyway. Oops.) Luckily, I'd kept a short list of other agents who only accepted book proposals for memoirs, not full manuscripts. So I signed up for an online proposal-writing course taught by an agent in Toronto. This person loved my concept, my voice, and my writing style and offered to represent me. Then he said, "But you have to start over." Turns out, the manuscript I thought was ready was actually far from it. But a year later, with a lot of help from a wonderful agent who believed in my book, I had written the first 100 pages of a new draft, created a great proposal, and got a deal with a Big 5 publisher! Moral of the story (I think) is to be willing to get genuine feedback from people whose opinion you respect. Being done with a draft you're excited about is a great first step, but you may still have a long way to go. And that's okay!
Thank you for sharing and congratulations on the book deal! Is the book out or coming out? If so drop the Bookshop.org link here and I'll add it to my storefront of Substack subscriber publications!
Thanks, Courtney! It's coming out in January -- MORE: A Memoir of Open Marriage. You already added it to your Substack subscriber publications page last week. Thanks again!
thanks, courtney, for opening up dialogue to answer these questions—and cort, i just want to say i feel you and agree that querying (followed by going on submission) is absolute hell. two things i'll add to courtney's list that helped me: 1. if you feel your ms is as tight as it can be, move on to a new project. there's nothing worse than that empty feeling of simply waiting—so find something else to work on to keep your hope alive. 2) know that it only takes one person saying yes. it took me 8 mos to find an agent (this was pre-pandemic, things move slower now) and over 2 years to sell my book. in both cases, NOTHING seemed to happen until that first yes, but then it prompted other agents and editors to take notice and make offers too. do whatever you need to to stick around while you wait for that first yes. wishing you so much luck.
Definitely agree on the point about moving onto the next project. After submitting my 2nd novel to 7 agents, waiting in six weeks of silence, I realised there were a lot of deep-ridden issues with the ms, structurally above all. I got some crucial feedback from an editor at Faber and decided to revise, heavily. It was brutal, but worth it—as the new version is so much closer to what I wanted it to be.
Now I'm querying again—the pain is real but I don't think I can take this book much further after five years of writing it and two rounds of querying. Funnily enough, while nearly all the UK agents were silent, when I sent it to 5 US agents, I got request for full ms in the first five hours. I'm not holding my breath though—and I fully agree with Courtney on getting excited about ALT publishing models. I've told myself if I don't hear back after following up the full requesters after a month I'll move to self-publish and get my teeth more into writing the 3rd book. Plus this new project has been slowly taking over my brain for the last year. Wishing you luck Chin-Sun!
thank you—and best of luck to you too. just so you know, i queried about 50 agents and i think in the end close to that number of editors also passed on my ms. and i hear it's slower now—so don't get too discouraged if it takes longer than a month or more. so great you've got a new project in the pipeline!
Yes yes yes-- these are SUCH important pieces of advice and they rang true for me now and still ring true for me when I am waiting to hear what my agent or editor thinks of a new manuscript or piece! thanks for weighing in, Chin-Sun, and have a great weekend.
Yes. I’ve actually considered gifting a bride and groom with eyewear: rose-colored glasses with blinders on the sides for her and magnifying glasses for him. . . . Snarky? Yes. But at around year 10 they’d come in really handy. (We are nearing 22.)
Thanks, Courtney! I'll definitely check out the resources you mentioned. This is my first rodeo and there's so much to learn, especially working in a genre which seems to color outside the lines (depending on whom one listens to) when it comes to nonfiction submission guidelines. I appreciate folks like you who are willing to share your experiences and knowledge.
Cort, I'm repasting here a comment from a writer and teacher Sonal Champsee who isn't a paid subscriber and thus can't comment, but she gave me permission to share her comment to you, here:
"Many writers take publishing/querying etc as validation, as proof that they have to right to do this, they they deserve to be writers.
It's an understandable attitude because we live in a world that doesn't value art so much as it values commercial success, so of course, actually getting the agent or the publishing deal feels like concrete proof that we deserve to take the time away from the other parts of our lives to create art.
And since writing and creative work is so vital to many us, the idea of publishing or conventional success as validation makes it particularly soul-crushing when we get a rejection, or when we are waiting for months with no answer.
But…. Publishing is a matter of taste, timing, talent and tenacity. You only control two if these. Excellent, wonderful writers get rejected regularly. Acceptance is an awesome feeling, but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you deserve to write.
It. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Whether. You. Deserve. To. Write.
You deserve to write and create and put your heart and soul on a page because you are human. You deserve it simple because you exist and you want to. You don't need to earn a place, it's yours because your heart and soul wants to create something.
That we deserve to do this has nothing to do with landing an agent or getting book deal or our financial success, although all those things would be really nice. That has nothing to do with your value as a writer and creative being: the world is dumb, the world doesn't make enough space for art and artists, the world does not have the right to tell you that you cannot write and create no matter how many barriers it sticks in your way.
It not always easy to remember this, because the world has so deeply ingrained its values into us. But don't look at this as validation. Publishing is business, not art. It does not determine your right to be an artist. You deserve to write."
Thank you so much for this — I am going to remember this as I pitch my fashion essay collection. It's an uphill battle as an unknown entity with a small portfolio, even though I do receive so much lovely agent feedback that the writing is "spectacular" and the concept is witty and in the zeitgeist. Those comments help but until acceptance your note will be close by my side.
Love this so so much. Bookmarking, printing and popping on the wall by my desk <3 Plus a great post, so uplifting and enriching. Thanks Courtney, Cort and Sonal!
Great comments on the brutal querying process. I do agree that it's one of the most push-down-into-the-dirt experiences a writer can go through but you're absolutely right about mss not being ready and after a number of no's it's time to get professional feedback. I did, it made all the difference. I've had three agents and it's been interesting to say the least. One retired, one I fired, and the current one is a gem. It's not a magical ride. Just wrote about the journey with those three, how I found them, what I won and lost, as a guest contributor to a wonderful forum this week (for fiction writers sponsored by @GrubStreet in Boston called @deaddarlings. Appropriate name). Thanks for these Q&A's, always great to learn new ideas and perspectives.
Dead Darlings is sponsored by graduates of the Novel Incubator program at Grub Street and has some awesome interviews with writers. I find it a solid resource for fiction writers. (www.grubstreet.org) Grub Street itself offers top-level classes and community programs online and in person in downtown Boston. I hope your readers check them out! I've taught there for many years and love the community. They also have a very good writer's conference each spring called The Muse and the Marketplace, which attracts agents from NYC and elsewhere. When I was querying for my third agent, the one I have now, I had a great experience there.
Aug 25, 2023·edited Aug 25, 2023Liked by Courtney Maum
Hey Wendy, I often wind up in the weeds and have to remind myself how little the littlest things matter to most other people (everything seems to matter to me!). I would try to trust that the compelling nature of your content (and your pitch for same) will override any tense or point of view issues your query letter might contain. Most people just don't even see what we see (like my husband who can pour sugar all over the counter just fixing his coffee and then walk away). Take heart from the fact that you've got a manuscript ready to query about, and write that query letter with confidence!
Thank you, Laura! You're absolutely right--spending so much time on proofreading to catch all the nitpicky mistakes doesn't mean I have to live life with the magnifying glass glued to my hand. Widen my focus, trust, let go. My new mantra. And thanks for that husband imagery which made me snicker right out loud. (I think many husbands lose much of their eyesight upon uttering the words, "I do.")
I'm so glad you answered the book proposal question! I've been so confused as to whether my query for my memoir should be closer to a fiction query or a true, full-out book proposal. Everything I read about writing book proposals feels so much more focused towards straight nonfiction, and memoir feels like it's in this murky middle ground. Sounds like you really do recommend going the book proposal route for memoir?
It depends on whether it's your first rodeo, honestly! If you've never written memoir before, it's probably a good idea to try writing the book first to make sure you're committed to a specific tone, plot arc, POV and themes. Sometimes with proposals you end up selling a book and then when you start writing it, you realize you want to write the book in a significantly different way, which is a direction the publisher didn't purchase. So I think learning who you are as a writer by writing entire book drafts is a nice way to start out but there's no denying the appeal of getting a book advance before a book exists.
Thanks for this whole series of answers! As always I learn something new and also feel seen...great combo :D
For each rejection I get (and there are lots), I let myself feel sad or disheartened for a day or so and then I try to let it go and move on. I sometimes look for a "Yes" somewhere else (for me it was a professional journal article getting published) while I still submit and query. I go into a bit more detail on rejection in my recent Substack post.
Yes! I love that advice: search for a "yes" from somewhere else. I hope you get a lot of them, Mary!
I could cry reading Cort's question, and I haven't even started querying. I've written a manuscript, which I've decided probably isn't ready (if it ever will be) and am applying for workshops etc. I get stressed thinking that I might never get published--the odds are overwhelmingly that I'll never be.
It's a depressing feeling, for sure. But whenever it depresses me to the point where I think about quitting, I think about the amazing writers in my life who aren't published, and I ask myself: Would you tell them to stop writing? No f***ing way. One of my best friends has written an incredible short horror story that hasn't been published (...yet, and it's y'all's loss if it isn't). My grandmother, a '70s journalist who covered civil-rights protests in her rural Southern community (while also raising 10 kids!), has been writing short stories based on her memories of growing up in the '30s and '40s, which only her local writers' group and her family have seen (for now, and it's y'all's loss otherwise). Do I think my grandmother or my friend somehow don't deserve to write, or are lesser writers, because their fiction hasn't been published? No! If anything, I'm sorry for anyone reading this comment who hasn't gotten to read their writing.
If publishing is as insane and depressing as everyone says it is, I'm going to venture out on a limb and guess that you also know people in your life you care about, who write, and who haven't been published. I'd give yourself the same grace that you give the people you love. Good luck out there.
Beautifully said. Thank you, Amelia!
Sending us all (esp. Cort!) so much encouragement — we can do it!
Gosh I have so much to say. First, regarding Cort's question: I was an agent for three years, and when I signed a client it was because their query was great, the book idea was interesting to me, I felt is was commercially viable, and the writing was good. The thing to remember is that agents receive more queries than humanly possible to get through. It takes a long time to work through an overflowing inbox, and that has nothing to do with you as a writer. Your mindset shouldn't default to a place of depression + anxiety over this, but I know depression often tells us a story about oursleves that isn't true (I have suffered from depression my whole life). A suggestion: Write a list of facts about yourself (in group therapy we'd call this "check the facts."). I bet you've accomplished quite a bit that you're not giving yourself credit for. Courtney is 100% correct about having a main stream of income that isn't book-related. Almost every author I've worked with over the past three decades had a day job. Advances are erratic, so having some financial security will alleviate some anxiety.
The small press question: My last in-house position was at an indie publisher, and I do a lot of consulting with other indie publishers now that I have my own PR/Marketing firm. Your agent wants to sell your book, and sometimes that means doing so with a small press. You should have a frank discussion with your agent if the advance is really low--because it probably will be. The agent might be open to a lower commission. Another option is to enter into a profit share deal with an indie publisher. That means forgoing an advance for a higher royalty rate and splitting the book's profits with the publisher. The great thing about indie publishers is that they have more freedom because they aren't tethered to a corporate parent, so they can wheel and deal differently. Sometimes starting out with an indie publisher is a stepping stone to the big five, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Thank you for this excellent advice and empathy!
My experience speaks to both the memoir proposal question and the querying process. I first queried agents with a full ms of my memoir, only to receive rejections or silence from 50 agents. (Note: Do not query 50 agents at a time. Everyone told me not to do this. But I did it anyway. Oops.) Luckily, I'd kept a short list of other agents who only accepted book proposals for memoirs, not full manuscripts. So I signed up for an online proposal-writing course taught by an agent in Toronto. This person loved my concept, my voice, and my writing style and offered to represent me. Then he said, "But you have to start over." Turns out, the manuscript I thought was ready was actually far from it. But a year later, with a lot of help from a wonderful agent who believed in my book, I had written the first 100 pages of a new draft, created a great proposal, and got a deal with a Big 5 publisher! Moral of the story (I think) is to be willing to get genuine feedback from people whose opinion you respect. Being done with a draft you're excited about is a great first step, but you may still have a long way to go. And that's okay!
Thank you for sharing and congratulations on the book deal! Is the book out or coming out? If so drop the Bookshop.org link here and I'll add it to my storefront of Substack subscriber publications!
Thanks, Courtney! It's coming out in January -- MORE: A Memoir of Open Marriage. You already added it to your Substack subscriber publications page last week. Thanks again!
thanks, courtney, for opening up dialogue to answer these questions—and cort, i just want to say i feel you and agree that querying (followed by going on submission) is absolute hell. two things i'll add to courtney's list that helped me: 1. if you feel your ms is as tight as it can be, move on to a new project. there's nothing worse than that empty feeling of simply waiting—so find something else to work on to keep your hope alive. 2) know that it only takes one person saying yes. it took me 8 mos to find an agent (this was pre-pandemic, things move slower now) and over 2 years to sell my book. in both cases, NOTHING seemed to happen until that first yes, but then it prompted other agents and editors to take notice and make offers too. do whatever you need to to stick around while you wait for that first yes. wishing you so much luck.
Definitely agree on the point about moving onto the next project. After submitting my 2nd novel to 7 agents, waiting in six weeks of silence, I realised there were a lot of deep-ridden issues with the ms, structurally above all. I got some crucial feedback from an editor at Faber and decided to revise, heavily. It was brutal, but worth it—as the new version is so much closer to what I wanted it to be.
Now I'm querying again—the pain is real but I don't think I can take this book much further after five years of writing it and two rounds of querying. Funnily enough, while nearly all the UK agents were silent, when I sent it to 5 US agents, I got request for full ms in the first five hours. I'm not holding my breath though—and I fully agree with Courtney on getting excited about ALT publishing models. I've told myself if I don't hear back after following up the full requesters after a month I'll move to self-publish and get my teeth more into writing the 3rd book. Plus this new project has been slowly taking over my brain for the last year. Wishing you luck Chin-Sun!
thank you—and best of luck to you too. just so you know, i queried about 50 agents and i think in the end close to that number of editors also passed on my ms. and i hear it's slower now—so don't get too discouraged if it takes longer than a month or more. so great you've got a new project in the pipeline!
Thanks Chin-Sun!
Yes yes yes-- these are SUCH important pieces of advice and they rang true for me now and still ring true for me when I am waiting to hear what my agent or editor thinks of a new manuscript or piece! thanks for weighing in, Chin-Sun, and have a great weekend.
thank you, you too!
Yes. I’ve actually considered gifting a bride and groom with eyewear: rose-colored glasses with blinders on the sides for her and magnifying glasses for him. . . . Snarky? Yes. But at around year 10 they’d come in really handy. (We are nearing 22.)
Thanks, Courtney! I'll definitely check out the resources you mentioned. This is my first rodeo and there's so much to learn, especially working in a genre which seems to color outside the lines (depending on whom one listens to) when it comes to nonfiction submission guidelines. I appreciate folks like you who are willing to share your experiences and knowledge.
Thanks, Courtney, for adding the questions as text and headings! Really appreciate you listening. These Friday questions are fantastic.
Great questions everyone! And thanks so much for your insights, Courtney!!
Cort, I'm repasting here a comment from a writer and teacher Sonal Champsee who isn't a paid subscriber and thus can't comment, but she gave me permission to share her comment to you, here:
"Many writers take publishing/querying etc as validation, as proof that they have to right to do this, they they deserve to be writers.
It's an understandable attitude because we live in a world that doesn't value art so much as it values commercial success, so of course, actually getting the agent or the publishing deal feels like concrete proof that we deserve to take the time away from the other parts of our lives to create art.
And since writing and creative work is so vital to many us, the idea of publishing or conventional success as validation makes it particularly soul-crushing when we get a rejection, or when we are waiting for months with no answer.
But…. Publishing is a matter of taste, timing, talent and tenacity. You only control two if these. Excellent, wonderful writers get rejected regularly. Acceptance is an awesome feeling, but it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you deserve to write.
It. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Whether. You. Deserve. To. Write.
You deserve to write and create and put your heart and soul on a page because you are human. You deserve it simple because you exist and you want to. You don't need to earn a place, it's yours because your heart and soul wants to create something.
That we deserve to do this has nothing to do with landing an agent or getting book deal or our financial success, although all those things would be really nice. That has nothing to do with your value as a writer and creative being: the world is dumb, the world doesn't make enough space for art and artists, the world does not have the right to tell you that you cannot write and create no matter how many barriers it sticks in your way.
It not always easy to remember this, because the world has so deeply ingrained its values into us. But don't look at this as validation. Publishing is business, not art. It does not determine your right to be an artist. You deserve to write."
Thank you so much for this — I am going to remember this as I pitch my fashion essay collection. It's an uphill battle as an unknown entity with a small portfolio, even though I do receive so much lovely agent feedback that the writing is "spectacular" and the concept is witty and in the zeitgeist. Those comments help but until acceptance your note will be close by my side.
Love this so so much. Bookmarking, printing and popping on the wall by my desk <3 Plus a great post, so uplifting and enriching. Thanks Courtney, Cort and Sonal!
Great comments on the brutal querying process. I do agree that it's one of the most push-down-into-the-dirt experiences a writer can go through but you're absolutely right about mss not being ready and after a number of no's it's time to get professional feedback. I did, it made all the difference. I've had three agents and it's been interesting to say the least. One retired, one I fired, and the current one is a gem. It's not a magical ride. Just wrote about the journey with those three, how I found them, what I won and lost, as a guest contributor to a wonderful forum this week (for fiction writers sponsored by @GrubStreet in Boston called @deaddarlings. Appropriate name). Thanks for these Q&A's, always great to learn new ideas and perspectives.
Share the link to your piece! And congrats on the third time being the charm-- played out the same for me.
Thank you, Courtney! Three is often the charm, I've found, but it takes patience to hang in there until it happens.
Here's the link to my article on my three-agent journey: https://www.deaddarlings.com/playing-agent-game-what-won/
Dead Darlings is sponsored by graduates of the Novel Incubator program at Grub Street and has some awesome interviews with writers. I find it a solid resource for fiction writers. (www.grubstreet.org) Grub Street itself offers top-level classes and community programs online and in person in downtown Boston. I hope your readers check them out! I've taught there for many years and love the community. They also have a very good writer's conference each spring called The Muse and the Marketplace, which attracts agents from NYC and elsewhere. When I was querying for my third agent, the one I have now, I had a great experience there.
Hey Wendy, I often wind up in the weeds and have to remind myself how little the littlest things matter to most other people (everything seems to matter to me!). I would try to trust that the compelling nature of your content (and your pitch for same) will override any tense or point of view issues your query letter might contain. Most people just don't even see what we see (like my husband who can pour sugar all over the counter just fixing his coffee and then walk away). Take heart from the fact that you've got a manuscript ready to query about, and write that query letter with confidence!
Good luck!
Thank you, Laura! You're absolutely right--spending so much time on proofreading to catch all the nitpicky mistakes doesn't mean I have to live life with the magnifying glass glued to my hand. Widen my focus, trust, let go. My new mantra. And thanks for that husband imagery which made me snicker right out loud. (I think many husbands lose much of their eyesight upon uttering the words, "I do.")
I'm so glad you answered the book proposal question! I've been so confused as to whether my query for my memoir should be closer to a fiction query or a true, full-out book proposal. Everything I read about writing book proposals feels so much more focused towards straight nonfiction, and memoir feels like it's in this murky middle ground. Sounds like you really do recommend going the book proposal route for memoir?
It depends on whether it's your first rodeo, honestly! If you've never written memoir before, it's probably a good idea to try writing the book first to make sure you're committed to a specific tone, plot arc, POV and themes. Sometimes with proposals you end up selling a book and then when you start writing it, you realize you want to write the book in a significantly different way, which is a direction the publisher didn't purchase. So I think learning who you are as a writer by writing entire book drafts is a nice way to start out but there's no denying the appeal of getting a book advance before a book exists.
I'm well into revisions on my manuscript and hoping to start querying it this fall!
So many helpful moments in this. Thank you!